“You’ll go down as a wimp,” Trump told him. “If you do that, I made a big mistake five years ago.”
That “mistake,” of course, was picking Pence as his running mate.
It all happened around 11 a.m. on Jan. 6, just hours before Trump’s supporters stormed the Capitol. Pence had already told him that the election results would be certified. Trump didn’t want to hear it.
“You listen to the wrong people,” Trump snapped. Pence even drew a small angry face next to that quote in his notebook.
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Trump then tried another angle. “You’re not protecting our country, you’re supposed to support and defend our country,” he said.
Pence pushed back. “I said we both took an oath to support and defend the Constitution. It doesn’t take courage to break the law. It takes courage to uphold the law.”
It’s hard to imagine a clearer split in values.
Trump wanted someone to protect his power. Pence wanted to protect the Constitution.
Special Counsel Jack Smith had planned to use those notes as evidence in his case that Trump knowingly deceived his supporters. But after Trump’s 2024 win, the case was dismissed. The notes stayed hidden—until now.
Former Trump aide Nicholas Luna also remembered that call. “I remember hearing the word ‘wimp,’” Luna told investigators. “Either he called him a wimp, or said, ‘You’ll be a wimp.’ Wimp is the word I remember.”
About an hour after the call, Trump took the stage at his “Save America” rally. He told his followers to march to the Capitol. We all know what happened next.
Trump has not changed much since then. On Friday, he called for Smith and former Attorney General Merrick Garland to be prosecuted. He claimed again that “they cheated and rigged the 2020 Presidential Election.”
And now, Trump is hinting he wants a third term. Steve Bannon said last week, “There’s a plan. Trump is gonna be president ’28 so people just ought to get accommodated with that.”
For most Americans, that “plan” is worrying enough.
Pence has not said much about the new details. He probably doesn’t need to. The notes say enough on their own.
Featured image via Political Tribune Gallery
